DVGW-512 – Urban Legend?

More and more people are wondering if it really exists?   DVGW-512 is allegedly the standard for testing salt-free water treatment systems.  In fact, one company (WATTS) is claiming (in a convoluted, round-about way) that their product is approved by DVGW-512.  Check out this LINK if you want proof.  While they don’t actually “LIE” they lead you to believe that their product is 99.6%  effective (as stated in the test).

There are a couple of issues here, not the least of which is that the testing was done on the ORIGINAL MEDIA, but they are no longer producing the original media (from nextScaleStop).  They claim it is better.  I remain unconvinced.  In fact, we have had more failures of their new media than their older media (and we had plenty of failures of that media as well).

Let’s not beat around the bush, the media in Watts One Flow is nextScaleStop media – they are one and the same!

Pelican™* uses the DVGW-512 standard in their website, but it turns out it is “Third Party-Tested.”  What does that mean?  It could mean that they gave someone some money to test it and they said it was great.  But what do you expect from a company who says that their system delivers “naturally softened water,”  which is totally false!  Naturally softened water?  Where did they get that?  Look it up!   According to one of the leading water experts in the country:

Naturally soft water supplies have a paucity of any dissolved minerals, or an absence of total dissolved solids (TDS), an excess of carbon dioxide over alkalinity, and generally, a low pH.

Does Pelican™ do that?  Hardly!  When they start with something that is not true, how much can you believe?  However, I digress.  Here’s the deal:  I think the population can be divided into three thirds:

  1. People who won’t believe anything.  You could tell them that the sun will rise tomorrow and they would doubt you;
  2. People who will believe everything.  I can tell them I am Elvis and they will believe it (this is the “lunatic fringe.”); and
  3. People who are “open” or receptive to new and better things, if they work.

Salt-free systems are sold to to people in groups #2 and #3, which means that 50% of the customers are automatically satisfied because they will believe anything you tell them (they have been on the spaceship and have seen the little green men).   These people frequently write glowing testimonials about how wonderful a product is, but if you visited their residence, you might be shocked.

What about the other third – the ones who are receptive, but not in the lunatic fringe?   These are rational people who often want to be “green” or do not like carrying salt for their water softeners, but make no mistake, they are not any one’s fool!  I have no hard evidence, but from what I have seen,  about half of these people are happy with the salt-free water treatment systems.  50%!  That’s a pretty low satisfaction rating.

Bear with me.  Do the math.  50% of the people who buy salt-free systems to are in the lunatic fringe (100% customer satosfaction)  and 50% are receptive (50% customer satisfaction), which means that 25% of the customers have to be refunded.  What these companies do, is build in the returns into the price and sell them all day long, knowing that they will have to refund 25%, but the other 75% brings them big profits.

Fundamentally, I have a problem with pleasing the customer 75% of the time – that’s too low!

Is there validity to salt free systems using nextScaleStop and Filtersorb SP3?  Yes and since nextScaleStop has changed their formula, I believe that Filtersorb and nextScaleStop are  now nearly identical in performance.  Ask Watts.  They use both Next and Filtersorb. I will be the first to say that I believe they are equal in performance.

Pelican™?  I have no clue what they use and they aren’t telling anyone.  That worries me…

* – Pelican™ is a registered trademark of Pelican Water Technologies. US Water Systems has no affiliation with the company.

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This article has 12 Comments

  1. Do you still stand behind the Green Wave line of scale control devices? I am an environmental chemist with >40 years of experience, primarily in solid waste. I do, however, have some experience in water, primarily wastewater. We live in an area that has significant scale. Water softening is not an option – the rivers that I fish are severely depleted by urban withdrawals; the fish are already highly stressed, and adding sodium to the streams will stress them further. Because of all or the foregoing, I am looking for something that will reduce scale buildup without adding ‘softening’ cations.

  2. Dick,

    Sorry for the late response, but I have been gone for a few days.

    The Green Wave is the product of years of testing and is also evolving. The biggest thing is that it does what we say. It doesn’t soften water or make “naturally soft water” like some companies claim. It doesn’t make soap lather better or make clothes whiter and brighter as others snake-oil salespeople claim. Those are out-and-out lies which are totally false!

    The Green Wave can do an excellent job of preventing scale when applied properly.

    One thing to think about however (and other companies LIE about this): With a salt-based water softener, you use about 50% leass soap, chemicals, detergents and other products. What effect does that have on the environmnet? I don’t have the answer, but it is something to ponder.

  3. Mark,

    You indicated that the Green Wave can do an excellent job of preventing scale when applied properly. Can you explain what do you mean by applied properly and how would we know it is applied properly?

    Thanks,

    Wayne

    The Water Doctor Replied:

    “Properly applied” means that it is on water that does not have iron, sulfur or manganese and that the consumer understands what it will or won’t do.

  4. The Water Doctor Replied:

    “Properly applied” means that it is on water that does not have iron, sulfur or manganese and that the consumer understands what it will or won’t do.

  5. I have a question: what do you know about Puronics ( specifically the “new ” Clarius no salt/potassium) system? What do you know about the compnay in general? Saw an ad and am wondering about company claims about salt free, environmentally friendly system?!?!

  6. Mark, We are about ready to do a copper repipe and would like to add a soft water system at the same time. We have been getting conflicting statements about whether we go with a salt or salt-free system. We live in Southern Cal. (if, by chance that should make a difference.) What do you know specifically about Pure Water Technologies?

  7. John Cape wrote:

    Mark, We are about ready to do a copper repipe and would like to add a soft water system at the same time. We have been getting conflicting statements about whether we go with a salt or salt-free system. We live in Southern Cal. (if, by chance that should make a difference.) What do you know specifically about Pure Water Technologies?

    The Water Doctor Replied:

    Sorry for the delay – I have taken some time off. Pure Water Technologies looks like a good company, however I really know nothing about them. Their product uses nextScaleStop, which in my opinion is not as good as our current MEP Media. We used to use nextScaleStop, which less than steller results.

  8. Warren,

    Insofar as I can tell, the Puronics Clarius is a back-washing carbon filter with some silver-impregnated carbon inside (which is a registered EPA pesticide). From what I gather it does nothing for scale – just removes chemicals and chlorine and (I’m guessing) is pretty pricey. The Green Wave does that AND prevents scale.

    Big Difference!

  9. Hi, first of all I love your comments! It’s nice to have some humour interjected into what could otherwise be very dry material. I have a question about your comment: ” I believe that Filtersorb and nextScaleStop are now nearly identical in performance. Ask Watts. They use both Next and Filtersorb. I will be the first to say that I believe they are equal in performance.”

    My question is this. I have gathered from your other remarks that you aren’t 100% behind ScaleStop (ScaleNet). I see from GreenWave literature that it is NAC. So, is GreenWave media actually Filtersorb? Filtersorb claims that their media is NOT the same as ScaleStop at all and that the beads are coated with two layers of ceramic to help prevent swelling. Is it the swelling that caused TAC to perform so poorly as you indicated in other posts?

    I am confused. What is actually inside GreenWave and who manufactures it?

    thanks Janice

  10. Janice,

    A blog is an evolving body of work. This was published in 2010 and is not updated to remain true to the evolution of things. At that time, we were just switching to ScaleNet. Subsequent to that we now use Filtersorb SP3 with NAC Technology which I believe mirrors TAC. The Green Wave is made by us and the media is the newest release of Filtersorb SP3. We have not had the swelling we experienced with the TAC, and in fact have had very little difficulty with it. It has performed as advertised.

    We are not committed to NAC or TAC, and maybe TAC works better now – we are committed to giving our customers the best water quality possible and we now believe that is with the Filtersorb SP3, although we are always testing other products. If they work, we will sell them.

    I hope this clears things up.

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